This is a conversation I had with Jonathan Youssef:
Episode 80: david robertson: the tragedy of ravi zacharias
It’s difficult and heart breaking to process the news of confirmed allegations of personal impropriety by Ravi Zacharias. Apologist David Robertson joins Jonathan Youssef for a respectful conversation on the importance of grieving this report, what it means for Christian leaders to be held accountable, whether or not scandal discredits previous teachings, and what we can learn, if anything, from this revelation.
podcast episode 80: david robertson: the tragedy of ravi zacharias It’s difficult and heart breaking to process the news of confirmed allegations of personal impropriety by Ravi Zacharias. Apologist David Robertson joins Jonathan Youssef for a respectful conversation on the importance of grieving this report, what it means for Christian leaders to be held accountable, whether or not scandal discredits previous teachings, and what we can learn, if anything, from this revelation.
David Robertson is from Scotland where he was a minister and apologist for 18 years before moving to Australia to lead Third Space, an evangelistic initiative of City Bible Forum in Sydney. He has written several books including The Dawkins Letters and A.S.K: Real World Questions/Real World Answers. He is an award-winning blogger with The Wee Flea blog and is a contributor to premierchristianity.com.
Premier Christianity asked me to write a report on the report from RZIM re the allegations against Ravi Zacharias. It was painful to read. And it was the last thing I wanted to write about. But given that I had said we should not comment, until the evidence was in – and now the evidence is in – I agreed to write this article. You can read the Premier one here – below is a slightly fuller version. (Since this was published the UK RZIM has announced it is leaving RZIM). I am saddened and sickened by all of this.
An investigation into the once respected evangelist Ravi Zacharias has revealed far more disturbing behaviour than many had anticipated. In looking at the final report, which includes an allegation of rape, David Robertson says the future of the ministry, RZIM, is in serious doubt
Victims Exonerated, Ravi Guilty – What Now For RZIM?
When it was reported that Ravi Zacharias was being accused of sexual abuse through a couple of massage parlours that he had financial investments in – the news was so shocking that it was hard to take in. As with all such allegations it is better not to comment until we know the truth. Now we do. Although there are concerns about the speed at which Ravi Zacharias International Ministries (RZIM) began the investigation, once it was started it was done throughly and speedily with no excuses and no attempt to cover up. This has now just been published. Entitled “Report of Independent Investigation into Sexual Misconduct of Ravi Zacharias February 9, 2021” it is devastating.
It’s a tale of money, sex, abuse, greed, exploitation, and more. It’s far worse than we anticipated. For those who wish to know all the sordid details the report is in the public domain, but the following is a summary of the main points.
Ravi Zacharias was guilty of sexual abuse on many occasions, in different places, over a period of many years. These involved not only women in the US, but also in Malaysia, Thailand, South Korea and almost certainly other places. Martin Miller did not particularly investigate ‘Asia” and what he did on these trips. He especially used those who worked in massage parlours – even ‘importing’ them from overseas and seeking ‘more than a massage’. In one example in offered to take a masseuse to travel overseas with him. He used RZIM ministry funds to fund his abuse. He would give masseurs large gifts or pay for them financially. Four received monthly support from RZIM’s charity for the poor for a lengthy period of time. He used the Gospel and Christian language to gain the confidence of his victims. This paragraph is a horrific example. “This witness told us that their relationship began as a normal massage therapist-client relationship, and she came to think of him as a father figure. He elicited information about her faith and her financial situation. She reported that after he arranged for the ministry to provide her with financial support, he required sex from her. According to this witness, Mr. Zacharias used religious expressions to gain compliance, as she was raised to be a person of faith. She reported that he made her pray with him to thank God for the “opportunity” they both received. She said he called her his “reward” for living a life of service to God, and he referenced the “godly men” in the Bible with more than one wife. She said he warned her not ever to speak out against him or she would be responsible for the “millions of souls” whose salvation would be lost if his reputation was damaged. Several RZIM staff expressed concerned about Ravi travelling with a personal masseuse because ‘they feared the appearance of impropriety’. When challenged he became angry. From 2018 several members of staff expressed doubts about Ravi’s explanation for the Lori Thompson case. Although he accused those who accused him of being ““nasty people” and “lunatics” who were engaging in “‘satanic-type’ slander and falsehood.” Ravi owned at least two apartments in Bangkok. On one occasion he spent 256 days in one of those apartments and charged RZIM for rent. There is more detail about the Lori Anne Thompson case. The report concludes that given the pattern evidenced elsewhere it is highly likely that the complaints of sexting are true. The report contains the sad and disturbing details that “In order to avoid “protracted and public litigation,” on April 27, 2017 the Thompsons sent Mr. Zacharias a letter demanding $5 million in exchange for a release of claims against him and the ministry. And that Ravi paid them $250,000 to buy their silence. Some people excused Ravi as being ‘naïve’ and not using language wisely. The report provides evidence that his language was way beyond naïve. For example, he wrote to one massage therapist in Bangkok “I know more than ever that you have become the love of my life. I’m waiting to hold you close to my heart again”. There are many such examples and over 200 photographs. Ravi consistently lied – “In my 45 years of marriage to Margie, I have never engaged in any inappropriate behaviour of any kind.” Just weeks after the Thompson case he was engaging with similar behaviour with a Malaysian masseuse. The evidence is clear. Ravi Zacharias was a liar, a sexual pervert, and an abusive, deceitful manipulative, greedy hypocrite. This goes way beyond one incident, one fall. It reveals a lifestyle and pattern over many years. He fooled many people, shamed his family and brought disgrace upon the Church. He was someone of whom the Scripture warns us – a wolf in sheep’s clothing.
Does that negate the message he so often preached? No. If someone who says that two plus two equals four, turns out to be a mass murderer it does not negate the truth that two plus two equals four. But it’s somewhat more complex than that. Given that one of the evidences of the truth of the Christian message is the fruit of the Spirit; when a preacher of that message displays the opposite, it is a terrible blow for the credibility of that message. Ravi betrayed the Lord he professed to love; he denied the Gospel he preached, and he caused the name of God to be blasphemed. May God have mercy on him!
What about the victims? In a world where the word is so often misused, they are real victims. Perhaps they will rightly feel exonerated. Perhaps ashamed. Perhaps angry. All we can do is pray for them and commend them to the One who never abuses, manipulates, deceives or lets us down.
What about the future for RZIM? The report exonerates them in that it states, “ we did not find evidence that anyone within RZIM or on its Board knew that Mr. Zacharias had engaged in sexual misconduct.” Although there are still questions to be answered about the lack of accountability (which they admit).
In response they have issued a statement – the opening words really say it all –
“It is with shattered hearts that we issue this statement about the allegations against RZIM’s Founder, Ravi Zacharias”
They also include this apology.
“We regret that we allowed our misplaced trust in Ravi to result in him having less oversight and accountability than would have been wise and loving. We also regret the ways that many of us have publicly extolled Ravi’s character and the impact this will have had on victims of his abuse.”
The Board have appointed Rachael Denhollander and Guidepost Solutions, a management/compliance consulting firm and have added “In light of the findings of the investigation and the ongoing evaluation, we are seeking the Lord’s will regarding the future of this ministry.”. It is clear that, whatever the future holds for the many talented Christians within RZIM, the current organisation cannot continue under its present name and it is difficult to see how it can continue at all. Perhaps something new will rise out of the ashes?
Whatever the case we know that the gates of Hell will not prevail against the Lord’s church – no matter the blows it takes. ‘Millions of souls’ will not be lost because of the damage to Ravi’s reputation – just as they would not be saved if he had been a saint. We are saved by the grace, love and mercy of Christ – not the reputation of his people. Thank God.
Michael Ramsden. President of RZIM tweeted “I am heartbroken and ashamed”. I feel his pain and share his heartbreak. I didn’t know Ravi – although he did sit at our dining table once and did preach in my church – and I didn’t work for him. But I do feel some of the heartache and shame. Only God knows the pain that all the victims, the abused and the deceived, are going through just now but of this one thing I am sure: “I am not ashamed. I know whom I have believed, and am convinced that he is able to guard what I have entrusted to him until that day.” (2 Timothy 1:12).
Ravi Zacharias allegations: 3 ways Christians should respond By: David Robertson | 8th December 2017 Is Ravi Zacharias the latest Christian celebrity to fall? David Robertson looks at the accusations
He is one of the best-known Christian evangelists in the world.
He speaks before kings, political and cultural leaders and large student gatherings. He is a superb communicator, a gifted thinker and a good writer.
The unwisely named Ravi Zacharias International Ministries (RZIM) is an organisation that is not all about Ravi. They have an incredibly gifted team of speakers who are based all over the world – including Michael Ramsden, Os Guinness, Amy Orr-Ewing, Sam Alberry, Stuart McAllister and Andy Bannister. They are also responsible for the Oxford Centre for Christian Apologetics.
But now Ravi Zacharias is the latest in a line of Christian leaders who have been accused of wrongdoing. When I first heard the accusations my heart sank.
Not just because I, as a member of the body of Christ, am wounded whenever any part of that body is hurt, but because I have met and benefited from Ravi. He has preached in my church, and shared a meal in my home. His weekly podcast is one I listen to with great profit.
I love the ministry of people like Michael Ramsden, Amy Orr-Ewing and other RZIM speakers. We regard them so highly that we even appointed their Canadian team leader, Andy Bannister to come and run Solas. So little wonder my heart sank – either a brother I love had fallen or was under a vicious attack or some combination of the two.
The accusations were two fold – firstly that Ravi and his organisation had lied about his academic credentials. Secondly that he had been involved in a sexting scandal which he had settled out of court.
RZIM admit the first accusation, at least to the extent that they have been guilty of giving a misleading impression, but deny the second.
I have no right to act as counsel for the prosecution or the defence. Ravi has issued his own statement. But it is essential that those of us who profess to be Christians follow biblical principles in how we handle and deal with these difficult situations:
Don’t judge It’s a straightforward, if often misunderstood and misused command from Christ: “Do not judge or you too will be judged” (Matthew 7:1). I have been in many situations where I am asked “do you think he/she is guilty?” The answer is always “I don’t know”. Do I think he/she could be guilty? Of course. Because I believe the Bible when it tells us that we are all sinners – and I know my own heart! If Moses, David, Paul and Peter could fail and fall – I know that anyone can.
But that is vastly different from stating that someone is guilty. The bottom line is that we do not know. We may have some knowledge. “There were e-mails” – but e-mails can be faked. “Why would someone make this up?” – there could be lots of reasons, (Ravi’s lawyers have claimed those making the accusations have tried to extort money from a Canadian church leader in the past). There are so many variables and we just don’t know. We think we see the big picture when we only have a couple of pixels.
Some might then say “I have a feeling”. Well so do I, and my feelings have often been wrong! My conscience is not the judge of others.
It is important not to ‘read between the lines’. There will be those who read this and think ‘since you have not put forward a robust defence of Ravi you must really think he is guilty!’ No, no and thrice no! I am not in a position to judge. Neither is anyone not directly involved.
This is actually a really difficult command because the minute we hear something about someone we make a judgement about what we hear and inadvertently we make a judgement about them. Which brings us on to the second principle.
Don’t gossip “Do not spread false reports. Do not help a guilty person by being a malicious witness.” (Exodus 23:1).
“The words of a gossip are like choice morsels; they go down to the inmost parts” (Proverbs 18:8)
“Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen.” (Ephesians 4:29).
Gossip is a deadly poison. Especially when it is sugarcoated under the guise of prayerful concern. Whatever the truth, and whatever happens, there will be many for whom Ravi Zacharias is now regarded as tainted. Anyone who has been in Christian ministry – especially an effective one – will know why the Psalmist asks so often to be kept from the deadly arrows of false and vindictive words….and he didn’t have to deal with social media!
I expect atheist and secularist groups to dig for dirt but what has astonished me is that there are professedly ‘Christian’ groups whose sole purpose seems to be to wallow in the muck. One of the groups gleefully publishing anything they can about Ravi while writing sanctimonious, self-righteous essays even put out a request in public for people to find any ‘information’ (gossip/dirt) they could about me!
But isn’t this in effect seeking to cover up? Is it not seeking to silence those fearless Christian (and atheist) keyboard warriors who are exposing injustice and wrongdoing? Not at all. This is where we come to the third biblical principle:
We all need good biblical church discipline It’s not a popular concept and often comes with misunderstanding and tales of abuse – but discipline is essential in the Church.
Matthew 18:15-17 gives us the basic method. Go to the person concerned and if they don’t listen tell the church. The elders of the church are to investigate and act appropriately.
“Do not entertain an accusation against an elder unless it is brought by two or three witnesses.” (1 Timothy 5:19).
One of the problems in today’s church is that we have far too many Christians (and sadly Christian ministries) who are not subject to church discipline. We all need to be part of a biblical church community where proper biblical discipline is exercised.
A ‘board’ or ‘council’ is not biblical church discipline. If anyone has a complaint against me I just tell them to take it to the elders of the church. It’s a great protection for the individual, for the church and for the whole community when that system is in place.
What’s wrong with the Church Let’s be honest. We don’t follow these basic principles. We don’t trust the Judge of all the earth to do right and so we think he needs our help. We act as though we don’t believe in an all knowing, all seeing, all-powerful God, or the Judgement Day.
We have a false theology that enables us to make false idols. We build up people and idolize them, only to demonise them when we suspect they have feet of clay.
In the age of social media we have Christian vigilantes and keyboard warriors who in the name of biblical faithfulness ignore what the Bible says about church discipline and set themselves up as judge and jury. God have mercy on us!
All I can do in this situation is weep and pray and trust the Lord. I love Ravi Zacharias and pray the Lord’s blessing upon him, his family and the work that he does. I am so thankful I am not his judge and until it is proven otherwise I will not believe evil of a brother.
I know my own heart and therefore I think I have enough to do in repenting for myself without judging and repenting for others! I can simply determine to follow and trust Jesus – as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. (Joshua 24:15). And I rest assured in the words of Christ that the gates of hell will not prevail against his church (Matthew 16:18).
Reflections on the Heartbreaking Fall of Ravi Zacharias – EN
January 23, 2021
NOT THE GREATEST APOLOGIST… BUT ONE OF THE GREATEST FRAUDS’ ‘Demas, having loved this world, has forsaken me’ (2 Tim. 4:10). Is there anything more depressing for a Christian, especially a Christian leader, to see his close allies, his friends, his co-workers, deserting Christ and turning to the world?
We expect, and can almost cope with the hostility of the world – but other than my own sin, I know of nothing more discouraging and defeating than the fall of Christian leaders who I admired and was taught by.
Three years ago I became aware of allegations against one of those teachers, Ravi Zacharias. Having experienced personally, and seen the effects of gossip and allegations against a Christian teacher, I decided I could not judge. In other words because I did not have enough information – and because I trusted the organisation around Ravi – and because I hate trial by social media – I left it with the Lord. I knew nothing that was not already in the public domain – and some of those more intimately involved with RZIM reassured me. I even wrote an article explaining why we should not judge and how we should treat such allegations.
Last year I was asked to write a similar article over allegations of Ravi owning a couple of massage parlours. I have no intention of going into the details here – but I could not write the article – firstly because I would have nothing to add to the original one and secondly because there were unanswered questions which caused considerable doubt. The allegations are now at three levels – firstly that he misrepresented his credentials, secondly the new massage parlour accusations and thirdly a ‘sexting’ scandal. RZIM have dealt with the first, have appointed an outside investigation into the second, and the third was subject to a non-disclosure agreement. It was that final one which made me realise that there was something far wrong. You do not pay $250,000 to someone who allegedly is seeking to sue or bribe you if you are the innocent party.
Now some of those involved with RZIM are speaking out. Max Baker-Hytch, a tutor with the RZIM Oxford Centre for Christian Apologetics, wrote a five-page letter – which was leaked – expressing his disquiet at the way the whole situation was being handled. Another RZIM worker – Carson Weitnauer wrote a tragic piece on his blog.
Repeating pattern I’m afraid the pattern is being repeated far too often. If we are Bible-believing Christians we are aware that the Bible teaches even our greatest heroes have feet of clay. But we must not excuse particular sins by a general understanding that we are all sinners. There is more to this. My view is that these cases are becoming all the more prevalent and harmful because we have not followed Biblical methodologies and principles. We have developed a network system where Biblical church discipline is ignored (largely because the church is ignored), where big donors far too often call the shots, and where celebrity culture results in ‘untouchable’ Christian celebrities. The fall of a leader within the church is a desperately sad thing. Believe me, I have seen more than enough of that to last a lifetime – enough to know that there, but for the grace of God, go I. But the fall of a celebrity leader – whose ministry is his organisation, is even harder, because by the time it becomes public it is usually way too late for any damage to be undone – and indeed the damage is intensified.
Several years ago Ravi came to speak at the launch of Solas – an organisation we set up to help communicate the gospel – (now lead by Andy Bannister the former RZIM Canadian team leader). He was good – but it was that event which convinced me we should not go down the RZIM model. It is not helpful to have an organisation centred on and named after one individual. I found the celebrity aspect more than a little disturbing.
Whilst I greatly appreciate the work of the Oxford Centre and many of the people associated with that – Michael Ramsden, Amy Orr-Ewing, John Lennox, and others – I felt that we were called to reach a different group of people. To put it bluntly, RZIM worked on the trickle-down theory – you reach the people at the top (the 5%) and it will trickle down to the rest of society. But even though I disagreed with that, it was a difference of emphasis – not a moral or strictly theological difference.
I was also surprised that Ravi (and hence RZIM) tried to steer away from the more controversial societal issues. For example it was only when the Same Sex Marriage debate was over that Ravi got involved – more to reassure his supporters in the US, than to have any influence. But again that was an issue of tactics rather than core principle. Perhaps Ravi was much more gentle than this pugnacious Scot!
But it was the reaction to the Bishop Curry wedding sermon which troubled me most. Ravi thought it was excellent and added ‘the world heard the gospel that day. Thank you Bishop Curry’. There was almost nothing of the gospel in that sermon – so why praise it in such a way? I was out.
But none of that prepared me for what has now been revealed. We wait for the results of the inquiry into the massage parlours, but the rest of the evidence seems overwhelming. I feel heart sorry for the faithful workers and speakers in RZIM.
As Carson Weitnauer lamented about his former mentor: ‘The realisation that Ravi Zacharias was not the greatest apologist of his generation, but rather one of its greatest frauds – has felt like a catastrophic betrayal.’ The saddest thing is that it is not just a failure of a system, or a betrayal of an organisation, or even of family – but it is a betrayal of Christ. That does not negate the good work that Ravi did, nor invalidate the gospel he preached – but it does make it harder for those of us who preach that gospel. It is heartbreaking. I hope and pray that RZIM will survive, or that out of the ashes something new and even better will arise. Lord, have mercy!
My name is David Robertson and I am currently working in Australia with Sydney churches as an evangelist, having been the minister of St Peters Free Church in Dundee Scotland for 27 years. (the church is famous for being the original church of Robert Murray McCheyne)…
I am married to Annabel and we have three children – Andrew who is married to Caireen and is church planting in Charleston, Dundee (together with grandsons Finlay and Lewis and Elianna), Becky who is married to Pete in Australia (and our beautiful granddaughters Isla and Evie), and Emma Jane who has married to Chris and works as a prison nurse in Edinburgh.
I do a lot of writing – in newspapers, magazines, on the net and also books. I am the author of Awakening (the life of Robert Murray McCheyne); The Dawkins Letters;
I am interested in history, politics, theology, music, sport, art etc. I am a ‘big picture’ person who likes to look at things in a wide context – especially the growth, decline and renewal of the church in the West….my blogs will reflect these interests – some will be published articles, or articles that are on other websites – such as the City Bible Forum, and Christian Today and The Australian Presbyterian – for whom I write a weekly column). I will also put online all newspaper letters and articles that I have published. When I travel I like to write a travel blog as well. I have a great burden for the church in my native country but also throughout the world – and this is reflected in what I write. For me writing is a form of thinking out loud and trying to work out things. I often get things wrong and appreciate correction. I don’t claim any particular wisdom or expertise and value immensely the insights of others. One piece of advice in reading these – please don’t read between the lines. I write what I think (at least what is appropriate for the public arena!) and I try not to speak in code! There is no ‘in between’. Please don’t read into what I say what is not there!
Contrary to rumour I am not a communist, nor a liberal, nor a fascist, nor a Jesuit….I’m not sure what label fits! My supreme passion and interest is Jesus Christ. To him I owe everything. I live for him and I serve him. My only hope in all this writing is that you will share, or come to share that passion. In Christ alone my hope is found….
The ‘wee flea’ name comes from a series of interactions I had on the Dawkins website. He banned me from his site under my own name and called myself, Alaister McGarth and John Lennox ‘fleas living of a dogs back’. I promptly started reposting under the name ‘the wee flea’, and Dawkins, not being aware of Scottish church history or the nickname of my denomination (the wee frees), let it go by for a few weeks…until I was outed…and banned again! Anyway I kind of liked the name…enjoy the blog…
This personal testimony will help you understand where I am coming from:
For some reason a lot of people read this blog and many want to comment. I welcome comments, including critical ones, but please note I normally don’t publish anonymous ones and I can’t publish all that I get….
This is my personal collection of thoughts and writings, mainly from much smarter people than I, which challenge me in my discipleship walk. Don't rush by these thoughts, but ponder them.
Milo 